Thread: Everything you need to know about RED Minimags and probably others

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  1. #1 Everything you need to know about RED Minimags and probably others 
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    I'll let you decide...

    https://youtu.be/KEzLDqELh70


    I'm not burn because I'm not a customer of theirs.
    Last edited by EYu; 07-08-2019 at 11:37 PM.
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  2. #2  
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    I'm sure most here know, but just in case you don't follow RED, Jinni Tech who made/makes JinniMags were sued by RED a few years ago.
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  3. #3  
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    Red withdrew their lawsuit. I've been following this since it popped up on reduser.

    Since then jinnitech has been on the warpath in retaliation for the case.
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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeranSimpson View Post
    Red withdrew their lawsuit. I've been following this since it popped up on reduser.

    Since then jinnitech has been on the warpath in retaliation for the case.
    The final part was just recently terminated (dismissed by the court) July 2nd or 3rd (I don't know for sure) hence the almost immediate video release.
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  5. #5  
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    I don't follow RED at all... not a fan. But just curious, is there truth to this claim? If so, that's a bummer for RED owners.
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  6. #6  
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    The presenter in the video appeared to prove it on camera (if the hardware is all RED's), but it would be interesting (and fair) to hear RED's response.

    (Someone please post it here if they do respond.)
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  7. #7  
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    So far the only thing they have responded with is that they have the manufacturer install a proprietary code onto the drives. They did not specify if this has any purpose other than making it more difficult to swap your own drive in.

    They defended the price of media by saying that using any 3rd party media or modifications is not covered by them, and that the cost is due to R&D of encoding redcode and QC control.

    Breaking down the cost of QC for media nullifies that last argument, so it’s really only expensive because of R&D roi. and because they can.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYu View Post
    I don't follow RED at all... not a fan. But just curious, is there truth to this claim? If so, that's a bummer for RED owners.
    There's some truth to it, but the video isn't without its own faults. I'll share my thoughts here that I shared on reduser.

    The intro of the video includes many examples of errors that don't stem from the media itself. Some things firmware, some things user error, etc. It's also anecdotal and without knowing the numbers of working drives in the field it could only be a fraction of a percent that failed, it could be a lot more than that. We simply don't know. It's akin to a blog-journalist writing an article about the country "enraged" on Twitter and only show you 20-some examples of angry people and somehow call it news.

    The 512GB/480GB labeling is due to over-provisioning on the drives from factory from Micron. NAND flash memory is made in powers of two (2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512, etc), so all 512, 500, 480, 440, 400 labeled drives area actually 512 of raw capacity, with different levels of over-provisioning. RED had originally labeled the drives to reflect the raw capacity, but have since changed their media to the 120, 240, 480, and 960 GB labeling to be more helpful to the end user. The fact that Micron officially labels the drives as 480, though, should have clued RED to do the same from the beginning. But this isn't an issue exclusive to RED.

    Comparing the cost of an m500 drive today to something RED started making in 2013 is not a direct comparison. I'm sure the prices of the drives cost a bit more originally (the only info I can find is $400 for the 2.5" version back in 2013, but I don't know how much more the smaller mSATA SSD cost), so the overhead was still a lot, but not the 10X markup the video claims. They have also since dropped the price of the 480/512 to $1850 from the $2400 that the video references 2 years ago. Still expensive, but $550 less than before. Companies like RED can't fluctuate their prices with the market as quickly because they have to get their ROI on a per-batch basis.

    The claim that the docking connector is to hide the contents of the mini-mag seems disingenuous to me. RED would have removed the stickers and labels off the Micron drives if they were really trying to disguise where they came from. The mags open up with 4 torx screws and no "warranty void if opened" stickers or anything like that. Not to mention, the docking connector provides real value - not only does it save the SSD itself from the stresses of being mounted/unmounted all day on a day of shooting, it is a better connector to be doing that with 10,000 mating cycles guaranteed. mSATA wasn't designed to be docked/undocked on a routine basis.

    Really all we're left with is the fact that the internal components do not cost anywhere near the price that RED asks for the mini-mags. That's a fair criticism. But everything else seems like a man's willingness to play dumb to how computer components and business works in order to pad his argument.

    Lastly, I do find it strange that Jinni Tech essentially threw their own business model under the bus to come out with this info. Their first reaction to finding out this "secret" was to profit it off of it themselves. A true whistle-blower would have come out with this info 3 years ago and demanded change, but instead they decided to be a bottom-feeder and profit off of RED's existing ecosystem. It just rubs me a little wrong.
    Aaron Lochert
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  9. #9  
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    But $2300 doesn’t rub you the wrong way for basically off the shelf drives?. Good on jinnimag. Red reaped what it sowed. No compressed cdng for the masses then cheaper drives for everyone. Red deserves what jinnimag is doing if you’re being ruthless
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mico View Post
    But $2300 doesn’t rub you the wrong way for basically off the shelf drives?. Good on jinnimag. Red reaped what it sowed. No compressed cdng for the masses then cheaper drives for everyone. Red deserves what jinnimag is doing if you’re being ruthless
    Fwiw r3d is a much better format than cdng. Part of what makes the ecosystem so attractive is the high compression. If you want a raw workflow with arri, you'll be spending thousands of dollars on storage and backup media alone. I get the cost of R&D being passed down to their media...just seems a little much.
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