Thread: RAW does make a big difference in dynamic range on Pocket 4K...

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Taikonaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flabasha View Post
    No, they very coyly said, it doesn't use the same "part number". Which doesn't mean it isn't the same sensor.
    Not the impression they gave. They said the "same sensor" rumour began when one source mentioned it and quickly caught on because of the dual gain similar to GH5.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    What I see in this video test is a very small DR difference, one stop at most, probably less.

    Has anybody done an exposure ramp comparing the p4k with something else? I'd like to see it compared that way with a UMP, for example. LIke the second half of this, using several cameras against the same scene setup.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_Berger View Post
    "If Resolve enabled t his option for ProRes" ... not possible.

    And "highlight recovery" will also not be possible in "black magic raw".
    Just sayin.
    Except that both are possible. Apparently, you don't feel there's an need to explaining anything so I'll just end the post with...

    Just sayin.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flabasha View Post
    sensor is in at least one other camera (the GH5s)

    You sure about that? They have different base ISO's, and the P4K's sensor is DCI spec at 4096 x 2160, whereas the 5s sensor has more pixels available (though only for photos).
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  5. #15  
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    I thought they were basically the same sensor at first also, but recently I read that while they are similar, but are actually are different sensors, both from Sony with the same back lighted dual gain technology, but not the same actual sensor.
    Cheers
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  6. #16  
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    I also found that part of the video important so thanks for sharing it here. While it's great that Cinema DNG gives a qualitative jump over ProRes in certain ways it's unfortunate that this level of highlight recovery is only possible with it because it's just a bear of a format to deal with. Luckily, since I can record directly to these USB-C SSD's I can work directly off of the SSD for faster turnaround style projects.
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  7. #17  
    Come on, Highlights rolloff IS the dogma of a good pro photo camera and for video, along good motion cadence.
    We were spending days on how to find a good latitude balance between highlights and shadows to try to get a look similar to film.

    I guess the question that everyone wants to know is: Does this camera has an image as organic as the old pocket, yer or not. Does this camera has an image as organic as the original cinema camera yes or not?

    I mean, my DP used my old pocket as C cam with the Alexa when there was risky or stolen takes. And it was intercutting brilliantly.

    Then of course the p4k for the price it's an exceptional product, but for a pro who wants a lil' camera with top imaging is this camera image quality, not resolution, as good as the past products?

    And in the answer is where the highlight rolloff discussion pops in.

    I haven't used mine, waiting to receive it on monday to test it with a vintage cine lens.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikklemedia View Post
    Come on, Highlights rolloff IS the dogma of a good pro photo camera and for video, along good motion cadence.
    I have yet to see any evidence that motion cadence is even really a thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by tikklemedia View Post
    I guess the question that everyone wants to know is: Does this camera has an image as organic as the old pocket, yer or not. Does this camera has an image as organic as the original cinema camera yes or not?
    I've actually been able to match original Pocket and Pocket 4K footage that I downloaded with just a CST.

    Quote Originally Posted by tikklemedia View Post
    And in the answer is where the highlight rolloff discussion pops in.
    I'm pretty sure roll-off is really up to the grade when it comes to RAW.
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  9. #19  
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    "I have yet to see any evidence that motion cadence is even really a thing."

    at the risk of being controversial, its not, its complete nonsense. There is no actual physical basis for this supposed quality beyond the shutter speed of the camera and how fast it scans the sensor lanes (ie rolling shutter)
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelvis View Post
    "I have yet to see any evidence that motion cadence is even really a thing."

    at the risk of being controversial, its not, its complete nonsense. There is no actual physical basis for this supposed quality beyond the shutter speed of the camera and how fast it scans the sensor lanes (ie rolling shutter)
    NOT nonsense at all when those "frames" are encoded into a compressed file like AVCHD with long GOP etc,. because sensor scanning and PROCESSING is baked into the file in a manner entirely separate from DNG's film-style individual frames. Most of the effect stems from how the camera's sensor and encoder are handling image edge processing, something that different cameras process differently. Some drastically differently.
    In a way one can think of frame differential processing in a compressed long GOP codec as something like how ProRes "bakes in" image aspects that cannot be "deconstructed" in the NLE like RAW can.
    Why do we think some cameras offer "All-I" encoding as a FEATURE?

    Want super obvious proof? Watch a dance performance shot on both a Global Shutter camera and one with significant rolling shutter. DUH. Obviously the difference is GLARING.
    Now, one might be tempted to say "well that's just skew from the rolling shutter..". Well congratulations - THAT'S MOTION CADENCE. At least one example of it.

    On lesser camera comparisons - say a GH3 vs. a Canon 7d - The motion cadence differences may be more subtle and less obvious, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Some people's vision is simply more attuned to spotting it. If you don't see it, then great for you! It's one less distraction that you have to endure. But other sets of eyes DO see it.
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