Thread: getting MASSIVE noise with frank's "instant cinema lut"

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1 getting MASSIVE noise with frank's "instant cinema lut" 
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    12
    Some of the footage becomes unusable until denoising. Can someone instruct me on what I may be doing wrong here? I don't feel like I underexposed the image, but I am getting crazy amounts of noise when applying Frank's Cinema Lut.


    Here are the dng files:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/310510h5g...uA8Oew6pa?dl=0

    and attached a re stills from the LUT applied in resolve. any help is much appreciated!
    Attached Images
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    525
    Now mines not perfect, did this quick and the noise is in the original image but your lucky you shot in RAW so you can fix it. I believe it's because you've shot at too different a colour balance/ temp to the actual condition, franks lut probably also expects white balance which compounds the issue.

    bmcuser fix2_1.2.2.jpg

    this is with franks lut at 100% and a couple tweaks. Main thing was to fix the temp and tint. How well it goes in a moving image I'm not sure but I'd start there.
    Last edited by Ryanite; 08-06-2018 at 07:32 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    525
    here's the other.

    bmcuser fix1_1.1.1.jpg

    again 100% franks lut with temp and tint adjusted in the raw tab.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member LochnessDigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    585
    Ryan's method is only a band-aid to the problem. That LUT and many others on the market will enhance color separation between warm and cool colors. Think of the colors in the image as if they are teetering on the edge of a fence. If they fall one way, say cold, for example, the LUT will push them even bluer. If they fall the other way, the LUT will push them even warmer. So what Ryan has done is WB the entire image so warm that the LUT pushes every color warm, including the blues, almost in a monochromatic way. So you tend to see less noise, but that only works if absolute warmth is the look you're going for.

    So any LUT that enhances color separation will also have the effect of bringing out noise, because noise is often a red/blue combo. It's good practice to run some chroma noise reduction prior to the LUT to mitigate this.



    I also tend to add grain at the end of the chain to further blend/dither the image together.

    Here's another example:

    Blackmagic color:


    Frank's LUT:


    Frank's LUT + Noise reduction prior to LUT node


    Frank's LUT + Noise reduction prior to LUT node + Film grain after LUT node


    So you can see just how far a LUT like Frank's pushes those near-neutral blues to really a saturated teal. It's going to exacerbate noise unless you tackle it right away.
    Aaron Lochert
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member david evans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    595
    Hey,

    Your footage has natural chroma noise in certain underexposed areas, but it will only appear if you pull the shadows up and try to force color into it. Doing some chroma noise cleaning is a good idea.

    After balancing the shot, here are a few grabs of different things I tried:


    1 - Instant Cinema LUT (a little hard to set color separation because Frank's LUT naturally desaturates the green channel.



    2 - Kholi Contrast LUT - I love Kholi's LUT pack. They're not look LUTs, but they deliver very natural and pleasing results.



    3 - Film looks - One of the Kodak LUTs that comes with Resolve. Probably the best film emulation LUTs around.



    4 - Lightillusion film tv legal - one of my favorites

    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member Frank Glencairn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,882
    As Aaron seid, it's in the color separation.

    I made this custom LUT for a project with a special look and color palette,
    down to the set design in mind, and released it "as is", for everybody, to have fun with it.

    That doesn't mean it works for everybody in all cases..

    So you mileage on different material may vary.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    12
    thanks everybody for your responses! it seems if I denoise in the first node with neat video, it isn't as bad. Plus I learned a few things along the way.

    I have another question...I'm getting moire on almost every shoot I take my UM4.6 on - to the point where I am starting to question if I can actually use this camera in the field. Is it a faulty sensor, or are there steps I should take in order to avoid this problem?

    Attached is a still, its popping up right under her armpit. The dress doesn't really have any crazy texture either.
    Attached Images
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member shijan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Odesa, UA
    Posts
    803
    When you shoot in 2k mode RAW you got quality similar to Pocket/Micro cameras. Lack of additional resolution cause pixel level problems like chroma noise, shadow noise, moire, FPN and cross hatching effect. You can fix some problems in post but moire can not be 100% fixed in post and visible even in 4.6K.

    To get cleanest image from 4.6K use in camera scale from full sensor to 2K and record to ProRes. The only problem - you may got cross hatching effect that can not be fixed in post. See this thread https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...1936&start=500

    To fix moire you need OLPF filter http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?20...l=1#post241778 Not sure if that filter released for 4.6k

    To fix dimmed and shifted brownish colors in RAW use ColorChecker or similar chart or use ProRes http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?20...l=1#post243161

    Some workflow tips:
    http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?21...l=1#post248284
    All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    525
    Such fine clothing like the netting shot above is a big issue for cameras without an OLPF that don't oversample. You can removed the coloured moire easily by tracking and bluring the chroma channel but the aliasing pattern will remain.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Free "Instant Cinema - just add water" LUT for the Ursa Mini 4.6k
    By Frank Glencairn in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 03-20-2018, 04:45 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-05-2016, 03:44 PM
  3. BMPCC/BMCC, Fixed Pattern Noise, "Hot Pixels", and Black Shading...
    By Alex.Mitchell in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-16-2014, 04:08 PM
  4. SD Card "Not Ready" when Pocket Cinema Camera is set to record "RAW".
    By StarCoreFilms in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-12-2013, 04:12 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •