Thread: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4K Camera

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  1. #1141  
    Senior Member shijan's Avatar
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    done quick size chart:


    Last edited by shijan; 06-14-2018 at 12:52 AM.
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  2. #1142  
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    So since they are not stating the weight I guess they are still considering minor hardware changes?
     

  3. #1143  
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    Quote Originally Posted by stip View Post
    So since they are not stating the weight I guess they are still considering minor hardware changes?
    I think it was related to the carbon fiber aluminium mixed body. I guess they're still working out how to best deal with heat and overall build while keeping it light? I do wish they'd consider making it an inch shorter or so to more easily fit handheld gimbals.
     

  4. #1144  
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    Being able to shoot straight to SSD is just amazing. There would really be no chance of me shooting 4k raw otherwise. AUD 600 for a 128 gig cfast card or AUD 200 for a 500g Samsung SSD, all without having to alter the SD card door which would've also made running the camera on a one hand gimbal impossible. Really shows that BM are still there for the idie crowd.
     

  5. #1145  
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    Two sort-of gripes I have with this camera are the form and the question of dynamic range. I would have been happy with something more akin to a handycam (an URSA micro if you will), but maybe that kind of shape is even harder on gimbals.
     

  6. #1146  
    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akos View Post
    Two sort-of gripes I have with this camera are the form and the question of dynamic range.
    Some thoughts on dynamic range, which is always the main issue for me. We'll know for sure when people get their hands on the camera and run real-world tests, but I just wanted to set my expectations.

    The sensor seems to be the same one as in the GH5s, and for video I think it will be limited to 12-bit mode. Luckily, dpreveiw shows both 14-bit and 12-bit results on their underexposure comparison tool.

    I compare that sensor with the two cameras that I own right now: RX100 IV and a6000. I think the "+3EV" shot would be the limit for me on the GH5s in 12-bit mode. In 14-bit mode it has maybe half a stop more range, but I think the sensor can't shoot 14-bit at video frame rates, only 12-bit. Looking at those results, the RX100 IV has about the same DR as the GH5s 12-bit, and the a6000 has about half a stop more.

    That's a very good result: I have traveled shooting stills with the a6000 and RX100 IV and video with the RX100 IV and a7S, and the amount of headroom I get on those stills is waaaaaay bigger than on the video files (for which I always use slog2).

    In video mode, the RX100 IV has about half a stop less DR than the original a7S, and I think the a6500 and a7 III are half a stop above the original a7S, so I could get an extra stop just by moving to a more recent Sony.
    The a6000 in stills mode has between one and 2.5 stops better DR than the RX100 IV in video mode (depending on whether you just care about big shapes, or also textures: RAW makes a huge difference if you care for textures because compression usually destroys textures in the shadows).
    Take away the half-a-stop difference that the a6000 seems to have over the GH5s in 12-bit mode, and here's my expectation:

    I think the pocket 4k shooting RAW will have half a stop less DR than the a6500/a7III shooting slog3 if you test them with a chart (where only big shapes matter and you don't have to worry about 8-bit banding), but one stop more if you care about textures in the shadows. That's no BM4.6k, but I think I'll be a happy p4k user.
     

  7. #1147  
    Senior Member shijan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel H View Post
    Some thoughts on dynamic range, which is always the main issue for me. We'll know for sure when people get their hands on the camera and run real-world tests, but I just wanted to set my expectations.

    The sensor seems to be the same one as in the GH5s, and for video I think it will be limited to 12-bit mode. Luckily, dpreveiw shows both 14-bit and 12-bit results on their underexposure comparison tool.

    I compare that sensor with the two cameras that I own right now: RX100 IV and a6000. I think the "+3EV" shot would be the limit for me on the GH5s in 12-bit mode. In 14-bit mode it has maybe half a stop more range, but I think the sensor can't shoot 14-bit at video frame rates, only 12-bit. Looking at those results, the RX100 IV has about the same DR as the GH5s 12-bit, and the a6000 has about half a stop more.

    That's a very good result: I have traveled shooting stills with the a6000 and RX100 IV and video with the RX100 IV and a7S, and the amount of headroom I get on those stills is waaaaaay bigger than on the video files (for which I always use slog2).

    In video mode, the RX100 IV has about half a stop less DR than the original a7S, and I think the a6500 and a7 III are half a stop above the original a7S, so I could get an extra stop just by moving to a more recent Sony.
    The a6000 in stills mode has between one and 2.5 stops better DR than the RX100 IV in video mode (depending on whether you just care about big shapes, or also textures: RAW makes a huge difference if you care for textures because compression usually destroys textures in the shadows).
    Take away the half-a-stop difference that the a6000 seems to have over the GH5s in 12-bit mode, and here's my expectation:

    I think the pocket 4k shooting RAW will have half a stop less DR than the a6500/a7III shooting slog3 if you test them with a chart (where only big shapes matter and you don't have to worry about 8-bit banding), but one stop more if you care about textures in the shadows. That's no BM4.6k, but I think I'll be a happy p4k user.
    Very interesting found. Did you see my underexpose tests for BMMCC/BMPCC here http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.ph...l=1#post242117 With proper processing i was able to recover up to 2 clean additional stops without noise reduction and 3 stops with noise reduction. 4.6K sensor allow even more shadow boost.
    It seems every sensor can recover up to 2-3 stops from the shadows, but the question is did the GH5s and Sony sensors original dynamic range be the same as BMMCC/Pocket and 4.6K sensors?
    GH5s same as other similar cameras probably have only 11 stops at ISO 800 (Maybe up to 12-12.5 stoops at native ISO 50?) (3 additional stops can be recovered from shadows if downscaled from 4K to HD), and it seems it use two fixed switchable sensor ISO values that can not be switched in post in RAW file.
    BM Micro and Pocket cameras have 13 stops at native ISO 800 (2 additional stops can be recovered from shadows) it use permanent dual gain sensor technology which combines high and low gain in realtime during capture.
    BM 4.6K sensor have 14 stops at native ISO 800 (3 or more additional stops can be recovered from shadows if downscaled from 4.6K to HD) it also use permanent dual gain sensor technology which combines high and low gain in realtime during capture.
    Last edited by shijan; 06-15-2018 at 08:20 AM.
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  8. #1148  
    Senior Member Samuel H's Avatar
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    ^Interesting

    (I stopped caring about absolute numbers: nowadays I only do side-by-side camera comparisons; unless the methodology is exactly the same, the amount of stops doesn't tell me anything, so, 11, 13, 14, 15, it doesn't mean much; what I want is "one stop more than the current Sonys"; fingers crossed)
     

  9. #1149  
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    100% agree. It is odd that DxO and DPreview never do BM cameras tests to compare with other cameras in same measurement conditions.
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  10. #1150  
    Quote Originally Posted by shijan View Post
    100% agree. It is odd that DxO and DPreview never do BM cameras tests to compare with other cameras in same measurement conditions.
    They are mainly photography sites, right? They probably aren't interested in cinema cameras, although many of the stills cameras they test can record video as well.
     

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