Thread: Red Raven

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  1. #11  
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    Forgot these guys now sell them too:

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._5k_dsmc2.html
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorBro View Post
    PPS - The EVA1 will eventually shoot RAW externally.
    I personally won't buy a camera for planned features that aren't implemented. Same reason I don't pre-order
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  3. #13  
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    I didn't realize how little difference in price the RED raven is to the Scarlet W.. Almost seems like the raven is solely for people in the apple store to see as eye candy and buy cause they have money to blow. I thought it was like $5k for the body before?
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Smith View Post
    So, this is making the UM Pro loking better all the time!
    I really want to but my experience with my Ursa mini's and Production Camera 4k before that has me concerned with build quality. The URSA mini's have been a step forward in user interface and image but a step back in build quality IMO.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Finnigan View Post
    I thought it was like $5k for the body before?
    It was initially $5995 then they raised it $1000 after a few months. And then $2000 at some point later.

    My gut feeling is they didn't expect the demand and realized the price was set way too low, or it was a business strategy from the beginning.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Finnigan View Post
    I really want to but my experience with my Ursa mini's and Production Camera 4k before that has me concerned with build quality. The URSA mini's have been a step forward in user interface and image but a step back in build quality IMO.
    I don't have personal experience with the Ursa Mini Pro but Geoff Boyle seems to be really liking it and has been comparing it to C200 (and will compare to EVA1 when available) favorably. This was a subjective post by Geoff as opposed to one of the objective tests he usually posts. He just seems to think that for under $8K it's hard to ignore. Both Raven and Scarlet W fall out of the under $8K range.

    My opinion on buying any camera right now is as follows:

    1. Determine if it makes sense to invest in a camera or does it make more sense to rent the appropriate camera for each project.

    2. If you decide to buy, look carefully at every type of project you shoot. Determine which camera covers the most circumstances you find yourself in. I can and have shot RED on things that really made no sense to shoot RED on. A camera like the EVA1 checks off a lot of boxes for some of the types of shoots I do now. Still remains to be seen exactly how many boxes until I have camera in hand. I can tell you that there are shoots where reliability, easily accessible camera functions/buttons, built-in NDs, well designed ergonomics, and solid audio quality become paramount features. Obviously codecs and IQ are important too, but it's finding the balance of all these features that can help narrow down the camera choice.

    3. ROI. It has to be considered. If it's obsolete before you can get the ROI on it, that can become a problem. On sub $10K cameras this is much less of a problem, but could be a problem on any package that starts to head north of $25K. Make sure you can get reasonable kit rentals from clients. Before everyone and their brother owned cameras, there was always a healthy kit rental (okay not always but I think a lot more than now) that either the owner/operator got or the rental house got. Producers had to budget for these rentals. One of my DP friends made loads of money on his Betacam cameras shooting broadcast. Paid for the camera many times over.

    4. This is mostly for the younger shooters out there. Never go in heavy debt for film gear. Get something you can afford, when your skill level outgrows it and you've saved up enough money, take another step up. Outgrow that one, make lots of money with it, then take another step.I'm not a firm believer in getting out of college and buying a RED or an Alexa. If you are rich, or uber talented and already in high demand, then I suppose you can, but I find that young shooters who are doing amazing work with cameras like GH5, BMPCC, etc. are building their reels without going into huge debt. When you are in demand, you'll get production to pay for any camera you want to shoot on. Just takes time and experience. No one needs a RED right out of the gate to make something worthwhile.

    Back to the OP and the Raven. I would go Scarlet W. Mounts, OLPFs, etc. Or if the DSMC 2 is not a huge deal for you, then have a look at Epic Dragon. If you can find a sweet deal on that, maybe that makes sense. Just keep in mind, the DSMC 2 upgrade paths.
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  7. #17  
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    True the ROI is quicker on the BMD stuff but doesn't always mean it's more rentals. We get a lot of rentals in our market for the URSA mini @ $400/day. (for a kit, not just the body) but I guess our biggest fear is most of our market is independent film makers so they may not rent or understand how to use a RED in order to rent one. We do give people walk through on rentals.. but there's a lot more to a RED camera, and I'm pretty sure most will turn up their nose at renting original DSMC cameras.
    Last edited by Jason Finnigan; 09-14-2017 at 07:53 AM.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Finnigan View Post
    but I guess our biggest fear is most of our market is independent film makers so they may not rent or understand how to use a RED in order to rent one. We do give people walk through on rentals.. but there's a lot more to a RED camera, and I'm pretty sure most will turn up their nose at renting original DSMC cameras.
    For all the cameras that I have used throughout the years, I think a DSLR and all the menus/sub menus are way worse than RED's interface. All the info is on the same screen, and you simply press what you want to change. Change frame rate? Touch it. Change shutter? Touch it. I think as long as you have an understanding of camera functions in general, REDs are easier, but that's just me I guess. (side story, someone I went to film school with didn't know why you would want to shoot at 24p, when the camera could do 60i, for an example. Are you renting to those kind of people? lol)

    My rental house is saying that people are renting Epic Dragons (DSMC1) more often then the Epic-W, or Weapon Dragon. New RED cams always took at least a year to take off though, as they haven't earned "trust" yet, in the eyes of DPs who have are familiar with a camera they have shot on for 2+ years (even if they are better).
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  9. #19  
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    I wouldn't go for the Scarlet MX or any DSMC1; not because they're bad by any stretch, but because RED is not offering official support for them much past the end of this month (see HERE).

    In the under $10k range the C200 made the most sense for me, but if I had your budget I might have gone Varicam LT. To be honest, even with your budget, I might have gone C200 for the internal RAW; which only BMD and now Canon offer.
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Finnigan View Post
    My budget is around $20,000. I'd like to keep it around $15-17k but willing to spend more for a longer lasting system. I have no problem with used systems and I have plenty of V Mount batteries already.
    Go with a Varicam LT. Amazing camera, incredible highlight roll-off, dynamic range, great image out of the box, noise..
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