Thread: Any BMMCC without FPN?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1 Any BMMCC without FPN? 
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    242
    I'm in the market thinking of buying a BMMCC. I have a BMPCC and it is free from any FPN. In fact, I think I have a really good sample without any FPN and hot pixels.

    The seller has been nice enough to send me a few DNG. From reading on forums, I see FPN is a common problem on the BMMCC. When I raise the exposure 1.5, I can see FPN on the BMMCC. I do shoot a lot of available low light content so this could be a issue.

    So the question - does anybody have a BMMCC without any FPN or less FPN than my sample?

    In the pictures, only exposure has been raised and nothing else.



    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ft. Worth, Texas
    Posts
    827
    I don't have FPN with mine (with correct exposure) but I do have to work around pretty weird moire' artifacts.

    As for having to raise the shots he sent you up 1.5 stops this looks pretty normal from any camera (without in camera noise reduction baked into the footage). If these already darkish shots are raised 1.5 in Resolve than they must have been shot with very little light.

    And I'm assuming that's what the original owner was trying to show you... when shooting in lowlight it's clean of FPN. But if you try to raise it to normal exposure without lighting for that, well you'll get the FPN you're seeing.
    Remember, if you're shooting a scene and the shadows are clean for the exposure you set for the talent then that is great. If you ever have to ask "is my camera clean at 1.5 -2 stops lifted exposure?". Then you need to ask yourself, "why am I raising the exposure in a shot by 1.5 stops?".

    So I would say you've got a really clean camera!
    Last edited by Timothy Cook; 08-12-2017 at 09:59 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    242
    Thanks Tim for your reply. I think in most cases for production shoots, the camera's FPN performance would not be a big issue, but I shoot docs in low light which is often just street lights. Sometimes the only exposure I can use is ETTR and there are rare occasions I need to bring the exposure up a little more in post. Maybe close to 1 stop.

    My BMPCC is super clean devoid of any FPN. Also I seem to have one that doesn't have a huge issue with hot pixels. When I was going through the first two BMPCC, I did notice a slight difference between sensors. Some would have hot pixels show up right away or another would seem to have a little harsher FPN in really really low light.

    I also notice the BMPCC is noiser than the BMMCC. Even though the sensor is the same, maybe the way Blackmagic tweaked the sensor for the BMMCC removed some of this noise and allows FPN to show a little more easily. I actually don't mind the BMPCC noise at all so if they kept it the same without FPN, I wouldn't complain.

    I just want to know if there are super clean BMMCC out there that allow 1 to 2 stops of exposure gain like my BMPCC.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ft. Worth, Texas
    Posts
    827
    Yes mine is clean of FPN when I raise it two stops, but as always it depends on how low the light is originally.
    But to truly answer your question: "So the question - does anybody have a BMMCC without any FPN or less FPN than my sample?"

    I don't think anyone can make a honest comparison with these JPG stills because you didn't shoot them and we don't know the source light or original exposure, and we are only looking the JPGs. I can put a lens cap on and raise it two stops and it looks like crap. But I can shoot a slightly underexposed shot and raise it two stops and it looks clean.

    I'll honestly try to help you out with this, Dropbox the DNGs and I'll shot a comparable shot at the same exposure with my BMMCC and I'll let you know exactly how good the camera you are looking to purchase compares to mine. Mine is great when it comes to FPN but I can't shoot a dark back ally shot and bring it up to the exposure of the JPGs you provided without FPN. So I guess it's relative to the shot? I hope you understand we can't just look at your JPGs and make a judgement on how bad that Micro's FPN is . We need more info, like the DNGs

    Or grab the DNGs yourself try to simulate the setup, and then try as hard as you can to match the exposure on the Pocket's waveform with the exposure you see in Resolve from the Micro DNGs you received. If they are no where close...don't buy it.

    If your Pocket is shooting really great then you may want to keep shooting the lowlight stuff with it and pass on this micro.
    Last edited by Timothy Cook; 08-12-2017 at 11:03 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    242
    These are extreme low light scenerios, but they will show the limits of the sensor.

    Obviously, "CAM1" are from the BMMCC. I also made a DNG using my BMPCC with a similarly underexposed scene just for comparison.

    So will I ever really shoot something this dark? Probably not, but will I ever need to raise the exposure to at least 1 stop? On a rare occasion. The BMPCC does perform better than the BMMCC in regards to FPN. I was looking to make a BMMCC my A-camera with the added 60fps bonus.

    Tim or anyone with a BMMCC can have a crack at it. These two BMMCC images were shot under his desk I was told.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...nc?usp=sharing
    Last edited by goodgoings; 08-13-2017 at 07:36 PM. Reason: unlocked link
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    230
    ive only had mine for a good month, still need to shoot more to understand it but for me I also tend to see those lines when I start bumping up exposure in post. I came across a post in the BM forum where some guy made an inverse of his vertical FPN and applying some form of correction with it in davinci to help remove it with some success. He never went into the full step by step details of how he did it, thats something that I'd like to look into also.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ft. Worth, Texas
    Posts
    827
    Goodgoings your google drive file is locked, I requested access so I'll test it out when the file is unlocked.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    894
    I'm very sorry to say this so openly, since I love my BMPCC, but these cameras are not really for low-light situations. They are great for situations with controlled light. Even the 'Cinema' in the name implies that. You might say that it is just marketing speak, but I'd say that BM is rather giving you a hint what these cameras are made for.

    If you need to make docs under extreme conditions, get a Sony A7S. The older model is getting cheap on the second hand market and it's a low-light monster. You can literally film where your eyes don't see any more. Does it have RAW or even 10 bit recording? No.

    If you want it all in one package, until now you'd need to look at a different price level, like the new Panasonic EVA-1 (RAW still only announced, though).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    242
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I'm very sorry to say this so openly, since I love my BMPCC, but these cameras are not really for low-light situations. They are great for situations with controlled light. Even the 'Cinema' in the name implies that. You might say that it is just marketing speak, but I'd say that BM is rather giving you a hint what these cameras are made for.

    If you need to make docs under extreme conditions, get a Sony A7S.
    I'll politely disagree the BMPCC with the Speedbooster and say it is even better than the Sony a7S in anything below 3200ISO. I say this because I owned them both and did extensive tests with them before shooting a feature documentary. Colors and noise so much better on the BMPCC. The a7S had to be crushed to hide the ugly noise while the organic noise of the BMPCC was pleasing allowing more information in the shadows.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. bmmcc cooling
    By Sansetsu-Guyse in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-03-2017, 06:43 PM
  2. Wtb:bmmcc
    By Note Suwanchote in forum For Sale / Want to Buy
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-23-2017, 01:44 PM
  3. BMMCC and 60P
    By Tommy Davis in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-08-2016, 09:28 AM
  4. WTB: Micro BMMCC
    By dossan16 in forum For Sale / Want to Buy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-02-2016, 06:14 AM
  5. Bmmcc on a gimbal
    By Steven6d in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-13-2016, 09:01 PM
Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •