Thread: Colored Circuit Board Grid on Micro Cinema

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  1. #1 Colored Circuit Board Grid on Micro Cinema 
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
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    So from seeing a couple of comments in the Mosaic thread I now see that I'm not the only person suffering from the what I'm calling the, "Color Circuit Board Grid" on my Micro Cinema.

    I normally don't start a thread about any camera failures I'm having and first contact BMD about any issues, but I started the RMA procedures with them and after a week I was told they had to send the DNGs I sent to home office for future review. A couple of days later they responded and said the Circuit Grid is normal behavior.

    You'll also notice the grid on skin too. The photographer's neck, forearms, and legs display the grid without a rainbow flair to it.

    I'll be the first to say' "Ok Great", if it truly is normal behavior for a sensor, but I've never seen any manufactures sensor display these types of artifacts. So I'll let you guys judge because y'all are always pretty blunt when it comes to if the gear is operating properly or not.

    I'll link to the original DNGs so you can download to get a better idea. Even in the tiffs it highly visible.


    Thanks everyone, and if others who are having this issue want to centralize the problem in this thread feel free.


    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...kk?usp=sharing

    Shot 1 (RAW) - Photographer in a cycling kit. If you notice on bottom of his shorts, on his right leg around the word that says "PLUS", you see a crazy colored circuit grid pattern.

    Shot 2 (RAW3.1) - Cyclist going around a turn. On the gate behind the cyclist you'll see the color circuit grid in a bright but small area.
    On the fence in front of the cyclist you see a larger section of grid but in finer detail.
    On the building behind the fence and in front of the cyclist, if you look at the shaded side of the building, you'll see the largest pattern of the grid.

    All of these are visible without zooming in.

    Edit: I'm just supplying the DNGs because the forum's compression kills the photos. lol
    Last edited by Timothy Cook; 07-27-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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  2. #2  
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    not sure if it's my end but some of the dng's aren't view-able or appear to be corrupt
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanite View Post
    not sure if it's my end but some of the dng's aren't view-able or appear to be corrupt

    Some are RAW 3.1 and the viewer won't display them properly until you bring them into Resolve.
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  4. #4  
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    oh wow yeah, the 3:1 image of the cyclists is extremely noticeable but not quite the same as what I'm experiencing, I really can't see how they haven't sent you a new one...

    Mine is more like little dancing coloured pixels/noise in the place of where moire should be, however my subject was extremely close so it may be the case that the moire may react in a similar way if it's at a similar distance to you. 1 of my shots was at 25p RAW with a 16mm samyang and exhibited the dancing noise/moire but using the canon 1.8 50mm 50p RAW 3:1 the moire looked exactly like moire. What lens where you using? I'm not sure if it's related to that or the RAW vs 3:1 or what.
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  5. #5  
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    I'd be really interested to see if it's entirely connected to moire. I wish the mosaic olpf was cheaper and I know you'd probably not want to spend more on the camera if it's breaking but I really wonder if that'd fix it or not.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member shijan's Avatar
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    Nothing new, just a regular crosshatching problem that discussed in details in "Cross Hatching Wont Go Away" thread in official Blackmagic Design forum. Currently it can be fixed only with shifting XY position to 0.5px. And too sharp lens with too rainbow moire/aliasing pattern which also can be partially fixed by shifting XY position to 0.5px and apply chroma noise reduction. This can be 100% fixed only with OLPF filter.
    original vs fixed (open images in new tabs to see in full size)


    Last edited by shijan; 08-23-2017 at 10:05 PM.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
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    Hey Shijan, I replied to you over on the official site. https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...352871#p352871 take a look and tell me what you think.

    Robert's examples he provided are exactly what I'm suffering from, and he recommended something to help.

    Thanks for looking Shijan.
    Last edited by Timothy Cook; 07-28-2017 at 09:25 AM.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member shijan's Avatar
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    This problem is discussed more than a year. BM don't want to fix this or can not fix it on Micro cameras. Here is summary from that two year thread:
    1. Wrong debayering of second green pixel produces semy-invisible fixed pixel grid which is partially hidden under the sensor noise. As a result at some zoom or scale levels in various players and apps this invisible grid may produce highly visible cross-hatch moire-like pattern.
    2. Depending of image contrast, added sharpen and noise reduction amount, and player scaling method this pattern may be visible or not visible at all.
    3. In BMMCC which is limited to 1920x1080 resolution this makes sensor Noise and FPN more visible (it behaves like some kind of shadow noise and FPN sharpening, adds additional digital artifacts to noise texture) and this limits the amount of visually usable shadow details.
    4. People noticed this effect in BMPCC and BMPC cameras. In BMPCC it is harder to see because it is slightly noisier than BMMCC and pixel pattern more hidden under the noise.
    5. This effect depends of camera firmware version.
    6. This problem can be fixed with fix in CornerFix app https://sites.google.com/site/corner...aze-patterns-1 with applying a BayerGreenSplit500.cpf settings. This fix works only in ACR. All other RAW processing apps ignores it.
    7. BM support team answer: "this is currently under investigation by our Development team"
    8. BM team RMA few cameras but results are random and not perfect.
    9. As a temporary solution for this problem shifting image position by setting X Y position to 0.5 works very well (note that in Resolve this works only with RAW footage, but in Adobe apps it works with both ProRes and RAW footage)
    UPDATE: In Resolve, simply use the "pan/tilt" setting in the Color Tab (same values of 0.5 each), instead of "xy position" in the inspector. Should work for ProRes-Footage as well ...

    + you got moire/aliasing with RAW files. When shoot ProRes there is a lot or post processing done in camera - matrix color correction (aka simple color checker correction), chroma noise reduction, some kind of digital low pass filter which makes moire less visible, maybe something else that we don't know yet.
    ...and before/after screengrabs:


    Last edited by shijan; 08-23-2017 at 10:06 PM.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
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    Thanks Shijan, glad to see it may be resolved with a better debayering algorithm. Thanks for the work arounds, I'll start trying them out when this issue hits my images.
    Robert has linked me to a software that uses a better debayering algorithm to solve it.

    I hope BMD is working on this!
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  10. #10  
    Since my comment was the one that derailed the original thread hereīs I quick example of what I was talking about.

    Moire.jpg

    Maybe itīs my limited Resolve knowledge but I could not fix the raw moire with the 0.5 pan/tilt workaround. Could someone maybe give the "for dummies" guide?

    And Timothy, what is the software Robert linked you to?

    Thanks!
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