Thread: Ursa mini pro stills

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  1. #11  
    Yeah I have a aputure ls1 and a reflector, so I guess I will give it a go.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmetz View Post
    If shooting DNG's for fashion, I am thinking one would want to shoot at the highest frame rate possible to curtail motion blur. In 4.6K RAW, I believe you can get 60 fps.
    Frame rate doesnt matter, shutter angle does? You could shoot 24 fps with a 15 degree shutter angle and get a lot crisper image than 60 fps at 180?
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  3. #13  
    Going on the record to say that this is a horrible idea. If you want to try this out, fine, but do it at your own leisure and not at the expense of a client's project.
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  4. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by dmetz View Post
    If shooting DNG's for fashion, I am thinking one would want to shoot at the highest frame rate possible to curtail motion blur. In 4.6K RAW, I believe you can get 60 fps.
    Shutter speed matters far more than framerate. Double the focal length for sharp results, so for example if your shooting a 50mm have the shutter at least 1/100 or faster.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyccomposer View Post
    Frame rate doesnt matter, shutter angle does? You could shoot 24 fps with a 15 degree shutter angle and get a lot crisper image than 60 fps at 180?
    Thanks for clarifying that. As a matter of practicality, is it a good practice to reduce your shutter angle when one increases the frame rate? For instance if one typically shoots 23.976 fps at a shutter angle of 180, is it a good idea to move to a shutter angle of 90 degrees or less when shooting 60 fps or faster or is this wholly an artistic choice if exposure concerns aren't an issue?
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  6. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by dmetz View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that. As a matter of practicality, is it a good practice to reduce your shutter angle when one increases the frame rate? For instance if one typically shoots 23.976 fps at a shutter angle of 180, is it a good idea to move to a shutter angle of 90 degrees or less when shooting 60 fps or faster or is this wholly an artistic choice if exposure concerns aren't an issue?
    FPS & Shutter Angle are not terribly applicable terms when shooting stills and you should rather think about exposure in absolute shutter speed (FPS * Shutter Speed = SA / 360). So if you want to shoot at 24p w/ a 90 deg angle (1/96 shutter speed) or shoot 48p with a 180 deg angle (1/96 shutter speed), both stills will look exactly the same. Except you'll have twice as many files to sift through at 48p. The extra stills may help capture that perfect moment for some types of photography (sports for example), but is not needed for a typical photoshoot. The ursa mini pro has a still's button now, I guess, so whether you go for 24p project rate at 90 degrees or 48p at 180 degrees, it doesn't really make a difference.

    The Ursa Mini also is able to show exposure as a shutter speed rather than a shutter angle, and it may be worth switching to that while shooting stills.

    For portraiture on a tripod, you can generally get away with 1/50th of a second shutter speed, although bumping it up to 1/100 or 1/200th may help reduce motion blur and the images be a little more crisp if your subject moves around a lot. For handheld portraiture, you'll want to stick to a minimum of twice the focal length (50mm = 1/100th shutter)

    For cinematography, the shutter angle is absolutely important, and you probably should stick with 180 degrees unless you have a artistic reason not to.

    But I will also chime in and say that using a ursa mini for paid photo work is about a 99% bad idea, and a 1% good idea if you know what you are doing and have a reason for it.
    Last edited by mstrouty; 04-11-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrouty View Post
    For stills, FPS & Shutter Angle are mostly irrelevant. The only thing that matters is shutter speed. So if you want to shoot at 24p w/ a 90 deg angle (1/96 shutter speed) or shoot 48p with a 180 deg angle (1/96 shutter speed), both stills will look exactly the same. Except you'll have twice as many files to sift through at 48p. The extra stills may help capture that perfect moment for some types of photography (sports for example), but is not needed for a typical photoshoot. The ursa mini pro has a still's button now, I guess, so whether you go for 24p project rate at 90 degrees or 48p at 180 degrees, it doesn't really make a difference.

    For portraiture on a tripod, you can generally get away with 1/50th of a second shutter speed, although bumping it up to 1/100 or 1/200th may help reduce motion blur and the images be a little more crisp if your subject moves around a lot. For handheld portraiture, you'll want to stick to a minimum of twice the focal length (50mm = 1/100th shutter)

    For cinematography, the shutter angle is absolutely important, and you probably should stick with 180 degrees unless you have a artistic reason not to.

    But I will also chime in and say that using a ursa mini for paid photo work is about a 99% bad idea, and a 1% good idea if you know what you are doing and have a reason for it.

    Since the OP and other are talking about using a BMD camera for stills.

    None of the BMD cameras have "Shutter Speed" all BMD use "Shutter Angle". With all BMD cameras the "Shutter Angle" and "FPS" do not need to be synced with each other like on stills camera.
    24p at 90 deg shutter angle will NOT give you the same "motion blur" as 48p 180 shutter angle. "Shutter Angle" cameras make the adjustment automatically for you.

    With cameras that use "Shutter Angle" the camera makes the proper adjustment to the sensor read time comparable to the "FPS" setting you choice. The 180 deg SA "look" will always be 180 deg shutter "look" angle no matter what your FPS settings are. If you go from 30p to 60p and use 180 deg SA the camera will automatically double the sensor read speed.

    "Shutter Angle" and "Shutter Speed" aren't two different names for the same function, like ASA and ISO are. "Shutter Speed" must always be adjusted on stills cameras vs the FPS. On cinema cameras "Shutter Angle" performs the adjustment for you.
    That's why you commonly hear on here to set the camera at 180 SA and don't worry about it. Unless you need to speed up the sensor read times for more "crisp" shots for artistic reasons, or for optical flow use later.
    Last edited by Timothy Cook; 04-11-2017 at 03:17 PM.
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  8. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Cook View Post
    24p at 90 deg shutter angle will NOT give you the same "motion blur" as 48p 180 shutter angle.
    For video, I absolutely agree with this statement. For a single still frame (like this whole thread is talking about), I absolutely disagree with this.

    I think you are trying to explain that shutter angle and shutter speed get you to the same place (which i agree with). But for stills photography, you need to think about what combination of fps and shutter angle get you to the shutter speed you need for the shoot. And for BM, (at least on my Ursa Mini 4.6k), you can set display to show shutter speed instead of SA.
    Last edited by mstrouty; 04-11-2017 at 03:25 PM.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Timothy Cook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrouty View Post
    For video, I absolutely agree with this statement. For a single still frame (like this whole thread is talking about), I absolutely disagree with this.
    Of course if you want to make the single frame more photo like you will need to decrease the shutter angle. But I wanted to clarify to anyone reading your post, that you do not need to double your "Shutter Angle" when you double your "Frame Rate" on cameras that use "Shutter Angle".
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrouty View Post
    For stills, FPS & Shutter Angle are mostly irrelevant. The only thing that matters is shutter speed. So if you want to shoot at 24p w/ a 90 deg angle (1/96 shutter speed) or shoot 48p with a 180 deg angle (1/96 shutter speed), both stills will look exactly the same. Except you'll have twice as many files to sift through at 48p. The extra stills may help capture that perfect moment for some types of photography (sports for example), but is not needed for a typical photoshoot. The ursa mini pro has a still's button now, I guess, so whether you go for 24p project rate at 90 degrees or 48p at 180 degrees, it doesn't really make a difference.

    For portraiture on a tripod, you can generally get away with 1/50th of a second shutter speed, although bumping it up to 1/100 or 1/200th may help reduce motion blur and the images be a little more crisp if your subject moves around a lot. For handheld portraiture, you'll want to stick to a minimum of twice the focal length (50mm = 1/100th shutter)

    For cinematography, the shutter angle is absolutely important, and you probably should stick with 180 degrees unless you have a artistic reason not to.

    But I will also chime in and say that using a ursa mini for paid photo work is about a 99% bad idea, and a 1% good idea if you know what you are doing and have a reason for it.
    Thanks for engaging in this discussion. As a stills photographer, I am quite familiar with shutter speed, focal length, motion blur and the influences they all have on each other.

    Following your math though, I wasn't incorrect to suggest increasing the frame rate to result in a faster shutter speed since given a consistent shutter angle, increasing the frame rate does in fact, result in a faster shutter speed. To nyccomposer's point that one can achieve an even faster shutter speed by reducing shutter angle, that does practically make more sense unless one really needs a higher number of stills. 24 stills per second seems like plenty for most applications. Fun discussion!
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